Great Damage: The Gift of Discernment Used in the Flesh
If you are in Christ by the grace of God through repentance and faith, the Holy Spirit has given you a spiritual gift. Your spiritual gift is a supernatural capacity to serve Christ in this world. Romans 12 and 1 Corinthians 12, 14 are some of the places these gifts are listed and explained. While Christians debate the number of gifts and their availability for today, there is little debate about the existence of, and need for, the gift of discernment in the church. 1 Corinthians 12:10 lists “discerning of spirits” as a spiritual gift. Further, 1 John 4:1 commands us not to trust every ’spirit’ but to ‘test the spirits’ to see if they are from God. Clearly this is a call to use the spiritual gift of discernment.
The key to using our spiritual gifts well is to use them in the power of the Holy Spirit. People with the gift of mercy can become weak and wishy washy in matters of truth unless they let God’s Spirit direct their ‘mercy.’ People with the gift of leadership can become harsh and insensitive to the feelings of others even in trying to accomplish a God-given mission. When a Christian is operating in the flesh (Romans 8:5) and not under the control of the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 5:18), they can do a lot of damage.
This past week my post about 1Timothy 2:1 and it’s exhortation to be thankful for our leaders came back to the forefront. A post I wrote on January 20th when President Obama was sworn in was picked up by a number of ‘watch dog’ discernment groups and the rest is history. I have been called weak, soft on the truth, a compromiser, politically correct, foolish, and worst of all, apostate (not truly saved). Wow!!!
I have been a pastor for more than 25 years and I have heard some pretty harsh things; but the deepest wounding by far has been at the hands of people using the gift of discernment in the flesh. Most often, these are the folks that separate friends, divide churches and destroy families. It is a very dangerous gift when not under the Spirit’s control. Maybe you have experienced this personally, or worse, have been the one doing it. Here are five ways to know if you or someone you know is using the gift of discernment in their own strength and not the Lord’s.
1) Isolation: The gift of discernment, like all spiritual gifting, needs the balancing confinement of the local church. Sadly these watch dog sites are typically led by people who have gifts of discernment, often frequented by others with gifts of discernment. As they begin to write and comment they get themselves pretty spun up. Not because they don’t have legitimate warnings to give, but because they are operating in isolation. Without gifts of teaching and pastoring and mercy (to name a few), discernment gifts can quickly spiral into a tornado of twisted meaning. The idea that a man who has preached and written and funded and marched for and recruited volunteers for pro life causes for 25 years is soft on abortion because he exhorts people to find a basis for thankfulness in a very disturbing election outcome, is insane and could only be allowed to stand when gifts of discernment are boiling in the flesh and in isolation. Sadly these folks are often so harsh and so foolishly confident in their own distortions that mature Christians leave them isolated rather than face their fleshly wrath. Which leads to number two . . .
2) Anger: “The wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God” (James 1:20). Righteous anger directed against specific sin and toward a solution is needed and productive for the kingdom of Christ. Unrighteous fleshly anger throws accusations without reason and attacks people without cause. It refuses to listen to intent and is not moved by legitimate objection or explanation. This kind of anger is common place where the gift of discernment is used in the flesh! I receive more than 10k pieces of correspondence in various forms every month. I read my fair share of criticism, some of it no doubt deserved. Correction, exhortation, even rebuke, have their place. But when it comes wrapped in harsh, angry words it does not edify, it does not build up, and it does not advance God’s purposes in this world. I am not a stranger to the sin of anger, and I know that when I have failed the Lord and others in that regard, my conscience is soon pricked and I must repent of my wrong method even if my message was right. Speaking the truth in love is a biblical exhortation often lost to those using the gift of discernment in the flesh. There was some legitimate dissent in my post about Obama, but more recently just a lot of people venting harsh words, with inflammatory language and fleshly anger. Anger that is justified on the basis of Obama’s support for the wholesale slaughter of countless unborn innocents. Should we be angry about that, YES WE SHOULD, but does that justify attacking imaginary targets or dismissing the the 1Timothy 2:1 passage as though Paul didn’t have godless rulers in mind. Wasn’t Nero the guy who was burning Christians to light his dinner parties? It’s never right to do wrong to do right! Never! The method used by flesh discerners to get so many believers blowing fleshly anger is of course, fear, which leads to number three.
3) Fear: The gift of discernment used in the flesh promotes fear. “God has not given us a spirit of fear,” (1Timothy 1:7). To fear anything or anyone other than the Lord is not from God. Sixty-three times we are exhorted in scripture, “Fear not!” We don’t have to be afraid about President Obama, we don’t have to be afraid about where this country is going, we don’t have to be afraid about the nation we are leaving to our children. We do have to speak up and be involved and do our best to shine a righteous light on the darkness all around us. But anyone who is playing upon our fears to motivate us to do right things is not advancing the work of Christ in or through us. Beware of fear mongers; they may mean well, they may have legitimate concern, but irrational arguments flourish in an atmosphere of fear. Sadly it is the air that flesh-discerners live and breath. Deuteronomy 6:13, “You shall fear ONLY the Lord you God.” You know your hearing from a flesh discerner, when their words are turning you from faith to fear, which would normally be impossible apart from number four…
4) Distortion: Straw man argumentation is the practice of caricaturing the argument of your opponent and then dismissing the distortion. It would be humorous if it were not so sad to see the way people have taken the Obama post and grossly distorted my words before attacking them. Claiming that I was sold out to political correctness simply because I saw wisdom (rightly or wrongly) in the way Rick Warren prayed at the inauguration. Claiming that I was soft on the universal uniqueness of Jesus because I did not see the problem in using the name of Jesus in many languages as part of Warren’s prayer. Claiming that I was an abortion supporter because I do not believe it is right to speak of Obama in hateful terms or pray a curse upon him. To suggest that I was part of the emerging church because I use the word ‘missional.’ Oohhh pullleeeaaase!!! Words do not belong to factions and infighters. They are to be understood according to common usage. Words mean precisely what is stated in context, nothing more or less. To take what someone said and assume you know what they really meant, or that they know what you know, or that they had all the information you now have when they said what they did . . . All of these things are distortions. Are you listening flesh-discerners? . . . probably not which leads to number five . . .
5) Not listening: I have learned a lot from listening to even the harshest of comments this past week. I learned that there is debate about the term Arab Christians use for Jesus of which I was not aware. I learned that some Christians think that Rick Warren is a heretic??? (Presumably the same ones that have now added me to that list??) I learned that any amount of thankfulness for any thing about our new President is the same as supporting every wrong decision he makes and every evil he promotes. I learned that people who are using the gift of discernment in the flesh will not yield to any point of explanation or clarified intent because they DO NOT LISTEN! They only attack and vilify.
Please don’t cry for me or post a comment in sympathy. 
I learned long ago to bear up under “friendly fire;” you really do get used to it after a while. My heart in this post is for brothers and sisters in Christ today, burdened and blindsided by the damage done when the gift of discernment is used in the flesh and not under the control of God’s Spirit. The first time that happened to me I was floored, literally, crying out to God to understand how people who claim to love the Lord can embrace His truth but reject His grace. If you are experiencing that in your home or in your church my heart goes out to you as I know first hand it causes great damage.
Categorized as: Christian Life, From James, Spiritual Gifts
March 2nd, 2009 at 4:11 pm
Sign me up to join your team James..I have been pastoring for over 20 yrs and the biggest attack has always come from the people in the church not those outside… as Chuck Swindoll says so well, “It’s sheep eating sheep.” I have grown tired of the lable crowd that is too busy vilifying everyone not like them they forget about the lost neighbor or the hurting spouse and the lonely child, But they are standing for the truth. I think we need reminded, Jude says to “earnestly contend for the faith, ” yes but without being contentious. Amen for saying what needs to said James.
March 2nd, 2009 at 4:15 pm
[...] Great Damage: The Gift of Discernment Used in the Flesh [...]
March 2nd, 2009 at 4:20 pm
Pastor James, beautifully put! I once (im sure its been more than once but once that I remember) had used discernment in the flesh when some wrong teaching had been taught in our junior high school ministry. Man I was so angry for about three weeks and really hurt our youth pastor with my words. Then God spoke to my heart and soften it in an instant. I felt like such a shmuck and apologized for the way I went about expressing my disagreement.
thanks for your great teaching,
March 2nd, 2009 at 4:21 pm
James,
You have deep conviction when you communicate. Some of what you are saying is intended for people like me whose heart is very cold to Obama. I have a hard time with the abortion support of Obama and YOU ARE CORRECT in pointing out that they we are to pray for our leaders. God has commanded this.
When Obama visited Canada recently he stirred the hearts of the people here and the great outpouring of support for him is curious on the one hand but an opportunity for the Christian community on the other. People are talking about him and re-engaging support for him and their country.
Ultimately, there is an opportunity for the Christian community to speak on God’s behalf in response to things like the abortion issue and even the steep moral decline we are facing in this day. Suddenly it seems people are watching, people are listening and the real question is … are we there to speak on behalf of God and his desire for our lives in all this turbulence?
The great harvest is upon us. Keep preaching that Word of God brother.
March 2nd, 2009 at 4:50 pm
Pastor James,
It is time for me to come out of hiding to share with you my heartfelt, deep respect and appreciation of you and your ministry. (I was going to wait to show my appreciation by sending you something more than just words, but at this time we are financially not in a position to do so.)
More than three years ago, I asked a specific prayer and God placed you in my life to answer that prayer, as I prayed to go much deeper in the WORD.
I had grown up in the church…never knew a day I haven’t loved the LORD, a PK, married a PK, but was never discipled.
Years passed…involved in ministry, but never swam in the deeper end of the pool…so caught up in being one of the youngest female VPs and head of marketing for major fortune 100 securities/brokerage firm.
God had other plans…something happened…didn’t understand it…so profound, so incredible…intense joy…studied your book, “Gripped” to help explain it and our mentor relationship began.
Soon after, I left my corporate career to put my husband at the top of my ministry list, my children as #2 ministry and started a women’s ministry for a bible-based church in Jacksonville, FL.
My pastime – studying the word – and studying your radio messages. Seriously…it’s kind of scary…drop off the little guys to school and I’m in the word and later taking copious notes of your messages until I have to pick them up from school. I review your teaching and reflect and talk about what I learned to anyone who will listen. (Yeah, I’ve learned who my true friends are…hahaha.)
Please know God – through you – has had a PROFOUND affect on my life, as I look to “walk-walk” every week day.
You and Kathy are in my daily prayers…asking God to heal you fully and completely. (Nahum 1:7…Mal 4:2)
I pray this week you will be encouraged and feel at peace with being in the center of God’s will.
Feasting on His Wonderful Word,
Susan
Jacksonville, FL
March 2nd, 2009 at 6:23 pm
I read your post of January 20 and todays as well. The comments you have received are a good indication of what’s wrong in this country. Too many Christians are looking to their government and its decsions to make America a better place for THEM. Even Christians falsely believe we are somehow entitled to all we’ve recieved by the grace of God. Why should we expect pagans to make laws that favor us or our views? Praying for a leader GOD put in place is in no way equal to supporting everything he says and does. It saddens me that there is such a lack of discernment among the body of Christ.
Jesus never spoke out against the government of His day. He didn’t tell them to take up arms and demand their rights by force. He got busy in the place he’d been called. Too many Christians neglect the repsonsibility right in front of them and substitute it for heresy hunting and political rhetoric (and, okay . . . occasionally some action).
Keep it up James. You’ll always draw fire for doing right, sometimes from both sides! I support you. Not just because I agree but because you have Scripture behind you. And I’ll always agree with that. Let’s pray the Body of Christ keeps growing in discernment.
March 2nd, 2009 at 7:22 pm
Pastor James, I so appreciate this post! I have sinned against fellow brothers and sisters in Christ in several of the ways you mentioned in the post. And after going to them to ask their forgiveness have experienced the grace of forgiveness and reconciliation! I am learning to say less and pray more before I speak after discerning things that need to be addressed. This gives me time to check my motive in addressing an issue, my attitude toward the person I’m approaching, as well as the words I use during the dialogue. Ministering to people can be so easily hindered through our tongues and how we use them! Better to say less with love and grace then to sound off and wound a brother!
March 2nd, 2009 at 7:46 pm
Pastor James,
I didn’t see this new posting in time and I just finished posting my comments on this under the previous posting you mentioned. Please read it. I support you and understand what you are saying and I too thought that all the postings broad-brushing you without proper research into your your beliefs and your ministry was unwarranted. I do hope you will go back and read what I wrote.
God Bless,
A brother who has repented and had his life changed by your ministry.
Reno, NV.
March 3rd, 2009 at 12:27 am
Thank you Pastor James for your excellent teaching on this subject. It is a wonderful way to draw that fine line between discernment and criticism. And also a good way to learn to discern the discerners.
I know God will use this lesson in my life whether I am on the side of hard discernment or soft mercy. We need each other for balance – which is why God has placed us in one body with different gifts.
Discernment is vital in the Body lest the wolves tear apart the sheep. I’m continually amazed at the absolute error I hear promoted within the church – however – we must be careful that in uprooting the tares we do not also uproot the wheat. And grace and love cannot be missing.
I always appreciate your stand on the side of truth.
I know God will Bless you because of your grace under this ‘friendly fire’.
March 3rd, 2009 at 2:20 am
James, I stumbled across this blog by following a link on another blog. I wanted you to know that when my life had hit rock bottom God used your book, “I Want To Change, So Help Me God” to do a real work in me. I’m a huge work in progress but I wanted to drop by and say thank you for being a vehicle God used to impact my life. God bless! Allan Adams
March 3rd, 2009 at 2:21 am
Great damage, indeed, dear brother! The Pharisees, too, were “watchdogs.”
March 3rd, 2009 at 8:15 am
This is my first visit to your site. I came here by way of a link at Challies.
Your article was good and insightful but I have a question concerning two phrases that you used. They are:
1. “unless they let God’s Spirit direct”
2. “When a Christian is operating in the flesh and not under the control of the Holy Spirit”
I am 52 years old and I’ve heard expressions, such as these, since the time of my salvation thirty years ago. I’ve never heard a sermon or an explanation as to what they mean.
Is the Holy Spirit not God? He the Holy Spirit bound by our sinful whims? How does one know if they are “letting” the Holy Spirit direct?
Is there ever a time, in our lives, when a Christian is NOT under the control of the Holy Spirit? What does that mean?
I would appreciate an article that describes these ideas.
Thanks.
Tim:
Good idea, check back thursday for an article dealing with the fillling ministry of the Holy Spirit.l
james
March 3rd, 2009 at 9:15 am
James,
I saw the comments on the discernment web site yesterday. Your comments and response are right on and I couldn’t agree more.
I’ve heard you mention John 1:14 many times and how some people are truth people and some are grace people. The issue/problem is that Jesus was full of both and we bounce around and struggle with finding a balance.
I thank God for you and your willingness to wrestle with the truth of God’s word and exhorting and encouraging and challenging us to do the same. I also hope that things continue to go well with your cancer treatment.
For the Kingdom,
Curt
March 3rd, 2009 at 9:28 am
Thank you. I needed this.
March 3rd, 2009 at 11:37 am
James-
Amen to what you wrote here!
Theodore Roosevelt said, “It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out where the strong stumbled or how the doer could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is in the arena, his face marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and falls short again and again: There is no effort without error.”
James-
You are “In the arena” doing the work of God,touching untold thousands with His Word.
It is easy to stand on the sidelines and be critical of leaders. It is easy to say, “They are not doing this right,” or “They are not doing that right.” But it is another thing when you are in the game, playing. It is another thing when you in the arena, fighting.
J. Vernon McGee used to say, “The only exercise some Christians get is jumping to conclusions and running others down.” How true that is.
Hold the course,buddy.
Greg
March 3rd, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Dear Pastor James,
It hurts my heart to know that you were subjected to such harsh and unloving comments. Please know that this is not representative of many of us who believe with all our hearts that we are called to be watchmen and women in these last days. Sadly your words are being used by some who have a hatred for “discernment ministries” to invite those of like mind to “pile on”. You are absolutely correct that this gifting when operated in the flesh is destructive and not edifying. That is a pitfall, but please don’t throw the baby out with the bath with a blanket condemnation. There are many of us who sincerely try to always season our comments with grace and speak the truth in love. The Church is in dire need of this ministry as much leaven has crept in and grown.
Regarding the issue with the new President and abortion, it is a fact that many who call themselves Christians helped to get him elected. That is a direct result of church leaders being reluctant to call out the emergent teachers who advised and promoted the Obama campaign.
The whole issue of how Christians are to respond to a government that promotes bad values is a thorny question that has many views. Christian doctors and nurses may soon be forced to participate in abortions or be civilly disobedient and lose their jobs or go to jail or both. We live in a democracy, not a dictatorship as did the Apostle Paul. We have a voice, but the Church has ceased to be salt and light and the Gospel has been compromised and sound doctrine has been largely abandoned. We are seeing the fruit of that.
Would you please read this short study done by a pastor on the watchman ministry? http://www.erwm.com/WatchmanArise1.htm
It is a calling that cannot be denied and it is a calling that invites false criticism even when done in love.
I know you are a very busy man, but this is a vital issue and I would very much appreciate your views on it. I would also like to see you address discernment in your messages.
One last thing: The internet has afforded an opportunity to sound warnings to the Church. Unfortunately this is a two-edged sword – a mixed bag. But the same could be said for all ministries – some like yours are great, others, well there is a lot of false doctrine on radio and TV.
Thank you and God bless!
Great Comment:
Much wisdom and balance in what you say. My point here is the danger of discernment when not controlled by God’s Spirit. That is not to say in any sense that the gift is not needed, I believe I made that clear in the opening. thanks for writing,
james
March 3rd, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Pastor James,
Fabulous article! I’m sorry you had to go through this but I am glad that you could speak up about these travesties being committed by the so-called “Discernment” ministries (or ODMs). Thank you!
JimBomkamp
Calvary Chapel Green Bay, WI
March 3rd, 2009 at 2:25 pm
When Gump Worsley played goalie for the New York Rangers, a sportswriter asked him what team game him the most trouble. Worsley very candidly answered “the Rangers.”
Most pastors have the same problem. The biggest impediment to the Gospel tends to be Christians.
March 3rd, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Great article. Thank you for speaking the truth in love. How refreshing to hear someone say what I have been thinking for years about some of these “discernment ministries.”
I use to love to listen to Walter Martin. i was blessed, encouraged and ministered by how he lovingly and patiently brought forth the truth of God’s word; but nowadays it seems these “discernment” ministries seem to only rip and tear apart other believers.
We may not agree with the form or methods of worship or outreach, but we can agree and fellowship in the Lordship of Jesus Christ and the need for others to come to saving grace.
I just don’t understand the need to rip apart other believers.
Thank you for your wise and gracious words.
March 3rd, 2009 at 3:06 pm
[...] a bit of controversy. Beyond my comments in the comment section below, please see my follow-up post here about using the gift of discernment in the [...]
March 3rd, 2009 at 3:55 pm
Without reading the initial post that created such a stir, I will say that it is very hard to be the one whom the Lord has given the gift of discernment. First of all as a brother/sister in Christ it is painful to watch “Sincere” minded “Christ” loving Pastors not use discernment and then lead their flock down the wrong path. Some Pastors who are Spirit Led respond to exortation well and make ammends, others, quite often feel threatened by ‘little sheep’ who have not been to Seminary and discount their discernment as attacks and then ignore the exortation. A simple review of the Word of God will always lead those who are going astray back to the Truth. The truth is, God does not tell us to sit or walk in the path of the Ungodly. Then we have to know what ‘ungodly’ means. Back to the Word for that. I hear what you are saying about those who ‘flesh’ out with their gift, as do Pastors, but yet I don’t hear anything regarding retracting support for a man who believes in Inafanticide or yoking with those who teach an Ecumenical Jesus (which is not the Jesus of the bible). Years of labor for the Kingdom of God, masses amount of people in the past or at present coming to God ‘through’ your ministry is still not portionate to reconcile error. If you, through prayer and reading of God’s word do not come to the conclusion that you have been dupped by error than it makes sense that you won’t make such an ammendment. If however, you do, please show other Pastors that your crediblity will only strengthen as a Man of God who is able to admit a mistake and continue on about God’s work. And while you are doing that, I as one who has been blessed with discernment, will do likewise in praying and seeking God’s word that whenever and whomever is subject to “His” spiritual discernment is approached in Love and Grace.
Jay:
You would have to read the original post to weigh in with some needed discernment. I have explained there in the comment responses what I was going for when I wrote January 20th 2009. Of course alot has happened since then that has deeply grieved biblical believers. We have much to pray about. Thanks for writing.
james
March 3rd, 2009 at 5:20 pm
I learned that any amount of thankfulness for any thing about our new President is the same as supporting every wrong decision he makes and every evil he promotes.
I know you were being facetious here, but it raises a good point:
Many of those who claim to be using discernment are some of the least discerning people in the world.
March 3rd, 2009 at 6:03 pm
Great word. I must say, after reading the responses from the Jan. 20 post as well as the “discernment” blog post that offered the scathing rebuke, it strikes me that you, James not only accept comments but many times reply to them while they (discernment bloggers) won’t accept comments at all. Doesn’t God’s Word tell us “Rebuke a wise man and he will love you for it”? As one that has sat under your teaching at Harvest for the last eight years, I can say for a fact that you are the farthest thing from a “goat herder pastor”. You have been vilified and unfairly pigeon-holed by people that form their opinions from sound bites and blog post excerpts. I have become increasingly saddened by the lack of grace in the church today. Certainly, those that pervert the Word of God and fleece their congregations for their personal gain should be confronted with the Word they pervert to convict and expose them. But attack on those whose veiw we disagree with in the name of exposing apostacy is just plain WRONG! Btw, James, is this a trial or a consequence?
March 3rd, 2009 at 6:54 pm
What does “missional” mean anyway? I tried looking it up in the
dictionary and couldn’t find it.
Dear Melinda;
I am not certain of the etymology of missional, but I know it is being used today to describe churches that are focused upon the evangelistic and compassionate mission that Jesus gave to the church and not just focused upon themselves.
james
March 3rd, 2009 at 7:16 pm
Pastor James,
I just wanted to tell you I really appreciate your comments here and feel they are very balanced. They are also very needed. I’m a Reformed guy who has been critical of the evangelical church at large. And I certainly still do have concerns. But over the past year I’ve been increasingly convicted about my own personal attitudes in all of it (many of the very things you echo here). And I think this hits the nail on the head.
I’ve also increasingly grown weary of how many of my fellow Reformed “brethren” will slam people like Driscoll because he isn’t “thorough” enough in his responses when being interviewed on TV, when he is only given a 30 second response time, along with probable video editing that occurs after the interview. Let up guys!
Like you say, there may be correct concerns, but awful, ungodly attitudes as well which many times defeat the very cause they are trying to advocate. I wrote a post recently concerning all of this and believe that a professor in the UK named Lee Gatiss gives a great case-in-point from recent church history that shows where things have gone right and wrong. http://www.davidwesterfield.net/2009/02/confusing-the-effects-of-the-gospel-with-the-gospel-mp3/
Anyway, all that to say, thanks.
March 3rd, 2009 at 8:18 pm
Pastor James
While I agree with all you say here I can not pretend to be happy with Mr Obama and for some of the things he apparently believes in, in saying that I do respect the office that he holds and will pray for the man in that office no matter how he runs this country.
Very insightful post..
March 3rd, 2009 at 9:21 pm
GOD BLESS YOU!!!!!
For several years now, since around 2005, I have been calling for there to be more accountability with regard to these so-called Online Discernment Ministries (ODMs). Too few people have seen the disturbing trend they have set of:
- making false accusations against the brethren,
- using “discernment” as an excuse for groundless attacks,
- judging believers as “heretics” using trumped up charges,
- adding conditions to the Gospel of grace,
- perverting the noble calling of apologetics
In fact, just today, without knowing about your blog or article, I posted my own article at crosswalk.com titled “Don’t Believe Everything You Read…On the Internet.” http://www.crosswalk.com/blogs/abanes/11600278/
I hope it blesses you the way your article has blessed me.
peace in him,
Richard Abanes
http://abanes.com
March 3rd, 2009 at 9:28 pm
[...] another EXCELLENT article dealing with this same issue, see the recently posted “Great Damage: The Gift of Discernment Used in the Flesh” by Pastor James McDonald of Harvest Bible Chapel!! (Note: Not all websites/blogs committed to [...]
March 4th, 2009 at 12:32 am
Thanks to all the wonderful comments that are being posted here about this important topic to pastors and mature Christians.
I stumbled upon Ms. Schlueter’s blog about a month ago. I followed it regularly because I too am upset with some of the modern-day perversions and attitudes happening in modern day evangelical and mainstream churches of all sizes. However, when I saw her mention Pastor James’ posting and how she caricatured him with very derogatory and ignorant terms, I knew something was seriously wrong here. Being changed by Pastor James WITW broadcasts, I knew she did not know what he stood for or do any kind of deeper research. So that made me question what other postings she “jumped the gun” on. She does bring up good points from time to time, but there seems to be too much negativity and name-calling there for me. I am considering not following her blog anymore and turn to some of the more temperate ones that speak the truth with a greater balance of grace and love.
Christians are to be able to discern the wheat from the chaff and false doctrines, cults, etc. working against the body of Christ today. There are some excellent discernment ministries out there that are not just web-based ODMs. One such ministry is the Christian Research Insitute (CRI) which publishes the periodical The Christian Research Journal which contains primary research on such matters. I am not plugging them for no reason, but I follow CRI President Hank Hanegraaff’s Bible Answer Man show regularly on radio and the Internet and have heard him speak out against distortions and false teachings regularly with gentleness and respect (very important). I have done as he said and tested the Scriptures (a la the Bereans) to make sure these things are true and I have found him to be correct on what he corrects. This type of patient, collaborative, primary researching ability and loving attitude seems to be what is most missing from some of the other so-called ODMs.
Just reminding everyone know that we should not broad-brush all discernment ministries as bad or “fleshy.” We should examine them all and hold fast to that which is good.
March 4th, 2009 at 2:36 am
Pastor James,
Thank you for your much needed wisdom on issues like this. I hope in the future you may be able to preach on this subject so that Christians may understand God’s heart on this matter.
It saddens me when a brother or sister in these online discernment ministries goes after a brother or sister (such as yourself) that has shown themselves to be a faithful servant of the Lord Jesus Christ in orthopraxy and orthodoxy throughout their ministry and throughout their lives.
I am personally very confused as to how to practice the gifting of discernment under the control of God’s Spirit. I really do not want to use it in my flesh and cause pain to God’s children.
On the one hand I read, hear, and see programs, sermons, messages, and blogs that bring light to the utter silliness and sometimes outright heresy that is going on in evangelicalism today and it has opened up a whole new world to me of what Christianity really is and how people have sinfully distorted the Gospel into something else completely.
But then it gets more nuanced then heresy and it becomes downright confusing. Some para-ministries or internet blogs also point out things like Rick Warren’s prayer. Many felt it was ecumenical in nature and raised questions that there may have been subtle errors throughout the prayer and brought Rick Warren to task over it. I’m not a big fan if you will of Rick Warren and so that sat okay with me, in fact they were actually bringing up valid points that formed new convictions for me that seemed biblical that I would now be holding myself and other Christians too. No problem when it’s Rick Warren someone I don’t see eye to eye with.
But then I read blogs raising questions about respectable orthodox rock solid sort of folks like–Ray Comfort, like Ravi Zacharias, like John Piper. And suddenly the pill was not as easy to swallow as when it was against Rick Warren.
I have had to ask myself, okay take the personalities out of it, as a Christian you do not worship any mortal man, focus on the issue that is being raised. Okay–so I examined the issues and did these discerning brothers/sisters have a point? Yeah maybe I could see their beef with this action but at the same time was it really worth slamming someone who is 99% rock solid? Well to me the answer is no–but then I am challenged about how I felt about Rick Warren, am I justified in my righteous indignation there?
Along with these complicated issues there is also the question of, well how do I–Joe Average Christian–apply this stuff to my real everyday life? So then I started doing what I saw other pastors and radio hosts and bloggers due to public Christians and that is discern the heck out of their theology and lifesytle. Well in the real the world things don’t blow over as easyily as they seem to blow over for prominent Christians. No, in the real world I had close relationships broken because of differences in theology or because of my ever growing consciousness of everything that is wrong with somebody else’s views. And I think to myself, well maybe it should be that way, biblically speaking should I even have friends that are into emergent theology in the first place?
Anyways, forgive my long comment but I hope you understand my dilemna. Your post harmonized a lot of things for me that just didn’t seem to fit for me. But I would ask you with much earnestness to consider a teaching on this subject–I’m sure I’m not the only one who is experiencing these things in our Christian walk.
Grace and peace my brother,
-Israel, Reno NV
March 4th, 2009 at 7:32 am
[...] spiritual gifts Posted on March 4, 2009 by bkingr James McDonald has posted about the great damage that can be caused by people using the spiritual gift of discernment in [...]
March 4th, 2009 at 9:54 am
[...] another EXCELLENT article dealing with this same issue, see the recently posted “Great Damage: The Gift of Discernment Used in the Flesh” by Pastor James McDonald of Harvest Bible [...]
March 4th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
I was not even aware of this situation till Challies. However I have a question. Someother person brought up the doctrines of grace at Campus for Christ and I explained that the main reason why I believed in sovereign grace was original sin and all of a sudden a person there said that he denied original sin and sin is because of socialization and there is no imputed guilt of judgement. It’s all individualistic. I think I maintained myself properly however I wanted to start yelling given the history of the pelegaian debate. How would all of you have handled it given noone had their bibles out (we were eating pizza) and it was a relaxed environment.
March 4th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
For those interested in exploring this alarming (and intensifying) issue of so-called Online Discernment Ministries (ODMs), please visit “The Heresy Hunters” website/blog that includes several articles on this 21st century phenomenon of Christians attacking Christians. These articles highlights several issues that compliment Pastor McDonald’s words of caution. http://huntingheresyhunters.wordpress.com/
Richard Abanes
March 4th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
Hello again, Pastor James,
Just wanted to add my two cents. I think this is an excellent example of why we all individually need discernment. Some of the people posting didn’t bother to investigate whether Ingrid Schlueter’s comments about you being a goat herder, apostate, etc., were in fact true. If they had bothered to do their OWN homework, they would’ve found that that couldn’t be farther from the truth. I’ve heard things about Rick Warren and won’t comment on that issue, although I think the public should know that Harvest Bible Chapel bookstores don’t carry The Purpose-Driven Life. I have a minimal knowledge about why, but again, since I haven’t done my homework on it, I won’t comment about it. You need only attend a COUPLE worship services at Harvest and you will know that it is NOT an emergent church. If you want to hear the gospel, you will hear it at Harvest. Nothing wishy-washy about it! I am happy to see there are people out there willing to call famous pastors on their actions, especially when it comes to being seemingly PC or soft on abortion, but they MUST get their facts straight.
Agape,
e
E:
Great to hear from you. I hope you will come up and give me a hug when kathy and I are back at Harvest. Thanks for what you have written.
james
March 4th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
You pointed out a growing problem, as evangelicalism gets increasingly silly and pastors are acting less and less like pastors there is a tendency to jump on any public Christian leader about pretty much anything they say or do. Pretty soon, you’ve drawn the circle so small that you’re the only one standing in it.
There needs to be a line drawn between healthy God-honoring discernment and the all out visceral assault we so often see on these websites.
March 4th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
Dear Israel,
Greetings. I can understand your confusion. What is difficult when it comes to some of these people is how they make their charges stick and SEEM reasonable/biblical:
- taking quotes out of context from people
- ignore a person’s broader theology/doctrine, which is the backdrop for any comments being made
- cite innocent remarks by someone and infuses insidious/heretical meanings into them that the person never intended
- using outright lies to paint someone in a way that is theologically/doctrinally outside scripture
These tactics, which are very cult-like/deceptive, have cause many trusting believers to view certain brothers/sisters in ways that are incorrect. And that, in turn, has led to unnecessary division in the Body of Christ.
I, myself, continue to be a victim of this kind of slander, even though I have dedicated my life & ministry (personally & professionally) to defending the faith once and for all delivered to the Saints (Jude 3). I would offer the following advise:
- Test all things, and hold fast to that which is good (1 Thess. 5:21).
- Verify information before you simply believe it.
- Go to the actual sources of isolated quotes that sound damning (they’re often taken out of context).
- Contact, if you can, the person being attacked and ask them for confirmation of what you’ve heard.
I hope I’ve helped.
Regarding Rick Warren, if you’re interested in seeing how these people have twisted what he teaches in order to brand him a heretic, please read my many articles on the subject at http://abanes.com/04RW_articles.html . This material will give you a very good idea of how facts can be distorted, lies invented, and false accusations spread.
peace in Him,
R.Abanes
March 5th, 2009 at 6:48 am
On the pulpit, a pastor preaches and teaches about God and His inspired Word, the Bible. It’s all about Him. However, when a pastor writes a blog, he reveals more about himself, his opinions, his outlook in life and his personal conviction. That makes him vulnerable to be judged by ALL readers who may or may not know him at all.
What you wrote are personal thoughts mixed with teachings. Readers have to read in between lines to get a feel of your personal conviction. When readers disagree with you, they change their opinion on who you are, as a person and also as a pastor. The fact remains that there are people who are confused by your writing and have expressed harsh words. Instead of defending your position, can you tell us your position on issues such as abortion, homosexuality, money etc.? These are contemporary issues confronting believers and non-believers alike in the world today. Your words of wisdom can help us walk in the Word.
I thank God for you and your ministry. May God bless you with wisdom, knowledge and revelation. May God comfort you and heal you. May His Light shine upon you as you press on in your walk in Christ. Thank you for listening.
March 5th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
[...] another EXCELLENT article dealing with this same issue, see the recently posted “Great Damage: The Gift of Discernment Used in the Flesh” by Pastor James McDonald of Harvest Bible [...]
March 5th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Good advice for those like myself who tend to see things in terms of black & white, true and false.
March 6th, 2009 at 11:12 am
you said “like most bible believing christians i can think of many biblical convictons that i wish our new leader had.
and about which we must fervently pray”
maybe ‘the people’ need it to be said outloud what the biblical convictions that we wish our new leader had.
and about which we must fervently pray.
then maybe they can come to that place of thankfulness for all in authority, so we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.
Leslie:
If you read the comment sections you will see my ’specifics.’ Further anyone who listens to me regularly knows exactly what I believe. Maybe I will do a further blog on where our President departs from God’s word/why and how. Thanks for writing.
james
March 6th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
dear james
i do listen to you regularly and i know exactly what you believe. you have helped me greatly.
that’s exactly what the people need “where he departs from
God’s word/why and how” (we as christians are so searching for a leader, with christain values and beliefs, i don’t believe one will come, and we don’t want one that will tingle our ears) Jesus needs to come back, and i think God knows it
isn’t the comment sections after, what was said
i say this as gently as i can
ps aside from all this, im praying for God to heal you
March 7th, 2009 at 11:12 pm
Pastor James- I just had to write and tell you how much you mean to my husband. He was recently saved something that I had been praying about for years. He did a complete 360 literally overnite. Something our entire family is still hetting used to. This article struck him because because now that he has been touched by the holy spirit he wants everyone to feel what he is feeling and is struggling with how to tell people things out of love. This article couldn’t have come at a more perfect time but, it’s a GOD THING!!!! I just had to tell you that my husband never misses your show on the radio and checks your e mail daily. We were going to see you in Bath, NY but couldn’t make it. We pray that you will heal completely and come back this way. I juat had to say THANK YOU!!! You make a difference in more lives than you will ever know, and although you’ve never met he feels like he knows you and looks to you for wisdom. God Bless you and your beautiful new grandbaby.
March 9th, 2009 at 10:53 am
Wonderful blog post Mr. McDonald.
I have been a long time reader of Mrs. Schlueter’s and could write a VERY long list of inaccurate claims of hers. I was a member of Rick Warren’s church for more than 20 years. My background was very conservative Baptist including 14 years of Christian school and university so I had a pretty clear of orthodox Christianity. Now I don’t agree with everything RW but I wouldn’t agree with everything Chuck Smith, Charles Swindoll, etc. All of whom I have great respect for. But I can’t tell you the plethora of errors, wrong conclusions, and even flat out falsities at her site.
But it not only Warren as you so clearly know. I am a die-hard political conservative. My daughter is name after Ronald Reagan afterall. But no matter the politics of the president, (which so far are terrible) we are to pray for them, and we can be proud, politics not withstanding, that with the history of this country, and indeed many countries around the world, that a black man was elected president. I should also point out that though a proud alumnus of Liberty University, founded by a man I have huge respect for, Jerry Falwell, I believe it is important for a church not to be IDENTIFIED with a political party as it is not important whatsoever in light of eternity and we should never let that stand as a road block to sharing the gospel with the lost.
One only has to read many of the links Ms. Schlueter posts as the source of her blog entry. Often they directly contradict her blog entry. It amazes me but it happens so often. In one recent example, Mar. 6, she headlines a post that parents who pull their children out of school during a week of teaching that includes portraying homosexuality as a normal and acceptable, as “UK Parents Face Prosecution For Removing Children From Gay Indoctrination”. Now I think this teaching is reprehensible and would have pulled my children out of school during that period of time which was specified as no more than 5 days. But reading the newspaper story Schlueter linked to it clearly says any “punishment” will be that the kids will be considered “truants” IF the time missed adds to other absences that total 19 days for the school year. Now I ask, is that a true representation? And is her usage of the term “homo-fascists” a term that will repel those who need the Lord as their Saviour or a term of “loving the sinner and not the sin”?
The same day she blogs another post that attacks a conference that held in San Diego by emergent type pastors including Brian McClaren and ties Warren to them as if he spoke there, was a main contributor, pitched the PEACE plan, etc. She fails to mention the article she links to does not mention Warren, PEACE, purpose driven, Saddleback, etc. NOTHING linked to Warren at all. Just another ad hominen attack. She also fails to mention that Warren has publicly disagreed with McClaren and many of his emergent views. http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/circus-church/evangelism-hijacked-by-closet-theological-liberals/
Lastly, you so aptly pointed out that these discerner’s in the flesh do not listen. It has been my experience that the vast majority of them, including Ms Schlueter, do not allow comments of any kind. Those that do, no matter how much in the spirit of love and respect, will most likely moderate and not allow a post.
I apologize for the length of this post.
March 12th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
What I don’t understand, is why they don’t see a reason to be happy. Not about the evil, but, about Obama bringing us closer to the second coming, and the end of all evil.
March 13th, 2009 at 9:54 am
[...] Don’t Believe Everything You Read…On the Internet, and referenced his outstanding piece Great Damage: The Gift of Discernment Used in the Flesh. James gave the opening prayer! I couldn’t believe it. I had no idea he’d be in [...]
March 15th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
Dear Pastor James:
I knew you would post a well-thoughout response to the shellacing you took from some of the posters to the Obama post. I wrote two posts and one of them you never published which had more to do with Rick Warren. However, many people on this post spoke about the concerns with Warren and who he affiliates with and that some discernment ministries are too harsh and lump everyone into the “heretic” catergory. For me the jury is still out on how I see Warren and his P.E.A.C.E. plan. It has me terribly concerned.
That being stated, I never once thought you were compromising on your theology, on doctrine, and position. I believe you are one of the few reformed, sound teachers of our era. I only was concerned about how I felt about this presidency, about being submissive to authority, and about being grateful for him in spite of the fact that I greatly disagree with almost all he stands for.
It is so easy to be critical for me and for that I am grieved and must repent for A LOT. However, I must also be discerning because in the past I have been told and do agree that I can be incredibly gullible. I want balance in this and your missive offered that.
Thank you so much and I will continue to pray for you as you heal from your treatments and may I be one of the first at the Elgin campus to say “WELCOME BACK”!
Connie
March 16th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
HEY James,
You won’t believe this but ANOTHER pastor named “James MacDonald” has been emailing me, saying that he has gone through the same thing you have gone through — and I thought that he was you. So, we’ve both been talking to each other, until I said something and he finally realized he was another Pastor James MacDonald — AND FROM ILLINOIS!! LoL. Anyway, blessings to you. Keep up the good work.
Richard Abanes
http://abanes.com
Richard:
Sounds like an imposter to me
james
March 25th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Excellently put thoughts. I have learned SO MUCH from you this past year that I’ve been downloading & listening to your messages regularly! (I miss hearing you on KPDQ, brother, but am SO grateful for the website!) Thank you for letting God use you; for not turning your nose up at Him and doing your own thing.
Love in Christ,
Lisa
March 27th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
I agree with you Pastor James. I didn’t really want Obama to be in office because of all of his different policies, but I am willing to honor him and respect him as my President, because I know that God wants me to give reasonable honor to all authority, and because I know that He has power over the nations anyway. Thank you for serving the LORD with your ministry, and for teaching what God wants us to do in tough times, even as you have been going through them yourself.
However, the initial reason I was making a comment was to inform you that you forgot the “r” in the word “your” when you quoted Deuteronomy 6:13. “You shall fear ONLY the LORD youR God”. It’s a small error, but I thought you’d want to know. Thanks for making this blog, anyway.
God Bless
–A Youth at HBC
March 29th, 2009 at 7:59 am
A gift of discernment is a spiritual gift and can only be used spiritually. It cannot be used in the flesh. We can, however, react in a fleshly way to something we have discerned spiritually. Therefore, if something has been discerned through this gift, then what we have discerned will be right. If what we do about it is to be effective, then we must act spiritually as well. Reacting in a fleshly way will not be fruitful as you stated in your post. If what we think we have discerned is not right, then we have not discerned using the gift of discernment. (I hope I haven’t confused everyone now.)
If other Christians are upset by something we have done, then we must first of all search ourselves. Maybe they are discerning something spiritually (i.e. correctly) but they have just reacted in the flesh. The question is, am I spiritual enough to recognise the difference.
As far as praying for our leaders is concerned, then that is something that we should be doing. Especially for such as Mr Obama.
April 8th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
[...] articles: Great Damage: The Gift of Discernment Used in the Flesh by Pastor James [...]
April 8th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
[...] articles: Great Damage: The Gift of Discernment Used in the Flesh by Pastor James [...]
April 13th, 2009 at 10:52 am
Wow, this is so timely in my life! The Lord has recently been opening my eyes to just how much I enjoy negativity (thanks in part to Tim Challies’ post on this subject, which is also how I found your post). Thank you for stating God’s truth so clearly and boldly here. YES! I have been manipulated by fear! Yes, I have reveled in self-righteous anger which I mistook for righteous anger! And I couldn’t see how wrong it was.
Do you know what else the Lord has been showing me? I have mistaken this sort of anger for strength. But it’s not strength. The joy of the Lord is our strength, not the anger of the flesh. And if the wrath of man lacks the ability to produce the righteousness of God, then what kind of strength could it possibly have? Only the strength to hurt and destroy. That sounds like what the thief came to do (John 10:10). Frankly, all of the fleshly negativity has been draining me of strength and hope and joy, not helping me in any way.
I thank God for discernment, and for those who sound warning calls in the Spirit. But you are right…when it’s done in the flesh, it’s a terrible thing.
Thank you for this post.
April 15th, 2009 at 4:48 am
I also found this from Tim Challie’s post on discernment. I think that you (james) are correct on most everything you stated. The only thing I take issue with is the assertion that those attacking you have said gift. I do not believe that they do. Many saved people (and unsaved church goers) act like they have this gift when they in fact do not. And go around pointing fingers, and causing said havoc. In all the research I have done on this (in trying to figure out my place in the body) the majority of people that I have encountered (online/offline) that truly believe God has gifted them with this gift, wish they were given a different gift as they feel ill equipped to use this gift. They mostly sound timid and aren’t the types to be causing this finger-pointing problem in the body. And they can at times discern and speak the truth without tactfulness (but what they say is still true but without the tact). A believer who is using this gift “in the flesh” will usually be keeping his discerning thoughts to himself and not letting the body gain benefit from it. The gift is given so that body may benefit, but the fleshly discerner will use it for himself alone and not share it. For example: If said believer hears doctrine in a church that pricks his spidey-senses, he will usually leave that church and not go back. EDITED
So in conclusion: I think that those who attacked you over the obama post lack true discernment or they would have known internally/spiritually what you meant even if it wasn’t apparent in the text (which it was). See the thing is many people can go around claiming they have discernment when they do not…and how is one supposed to disprove that they don’t. But if I claim that I have the gift of healing or something else that should be readily evident…and I don’t produce then you know that I am a sham.
TOO LONG/please reference the post on ‘posting comments’
thanks for writing
April 15th, 2009 at 5:01 am
What I forgot to say above is that God often gifts believers with gifts that are outside their comfort zone (i.e. Moses comes to mind, and Timothy) so that they grow… He wouldn’t give a gift of discernment to someone who is fond of shooting off their mouth prior to being saved.
April 15th, 2009 at 11:34 am
[...] Great Damage: The Gift of Discernment Used in the Flesh [...]
April 15th, 2009 at 11:47 am
[...] Great Damage: The Gift of Discernment Used in the Flesh [...]
May 15th, 2009 at 11:30 pm
[...] — including well-known blogger Tim Challies (Article #1 & Article #2), Pastor James MacDonald, and the Internet Monk — have raised similar concerns about these so-called watchbloggers. [...]
May 15th, 2009 at 11:33 pm
[...] — including well-known blogger Tim Challies (Article #1 & Article #2), Pastor James MacDonald, and the Internet Monk — have raised similar concerns about these so-called watchbloggers. [...]
May 17th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
By chance I stumbled upon your post on the Ladies Against Feminism site. As I studied it I began to realize how well your thoughts enlightened me concerning an unfortunate circumstance that has been ongoing pertaining to some close, long time friends. In early 2005, these dear folks left our church, which admitedly possesses many flows, after stirring up huge controversy over both perceived and actual issues. Following their departure from the church this issue continued, affecting their homeschool co-op and personal friendships. Understanding has remained difficult. Your post enlightened because you shed new light upon the issue.
During the last four years, although our relationship with these people has seemed to weather the events I have slowly realized that we are not as close to these friends which caused further agony for me. I have struggled to determine which party was wrong. Reading about how acting in the flesh without the guiding hand of God has given perspective.
Although it remains unclear for me where this story heads, I am confident of God’s knowledge of what has happened, what will happen and who is in charge. Finding this post, I believe, was part of God’s loving hand. I believe it is in Isaiah where He says He will comfort us as a mother comforts her child. He has done just that for me here by providing greater understanding and therefore peace.
Thank you.
August 17th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
James,
I am working on some research, and as I am sure every reader can identify…I am far from what I started out to do and have strayed from my goal by clicking through numerous blogs of interest. It is my first visit to your blog, and the limited amount I have read has really blessed me.
My thoughts about this entry on “discernment” may only be true for me. The sanctification process is messy. When I first discovered the gift early after my commitment to become a Christ Follower, I did not understand it’s purpose. I began misusing it (although God can redeem whatever mess I made). One day, by direct revelation, God spoke to my spirit and enlightened me. “The gift of discernment was given to you so you can pray with power, love and a sound mind.” It was simple, but yet to me, a profound statement. I had a Pastor one time who reminded us, “It’s our job to love people; it’s God’s job to set them straight and free.” Reliance on the Holy Spirit is mandatory, and there have been times He has used the gift in other ways (no formulas), but I can know with certainty, that when I am discerning something…it’s time to pray.
Blessings.
August 22nd, 2009 at 12:38 pm
Greetings to everybody! Wow I have to say that this post and all the followup comments are some of the most important lessons and testimonies I’ve come across. By my hand I have destroyed nearly all of my relationships at my previous Fellowship and have been in isolation for about a year now. Sin is so awful. A little leaven will absolutely grow and consume everything around it. I thought I knew what was important at the time but gradually the peace of God and the fullness of the Holy Spirit left my life and my heart became so hard and I feel so trapped and don’t understand why I can’t repent for real and for good. All I can say is that none of us should hold anything above the bond of peace that is the fortress of our fellowship with one another in these last days. God Bless you all. Thank you James for your faithfulness.
October 11th, 2009 at 1:41 am
Yes i agree, we often times have to look at a persons intensions when dealing with gods gift of discerment.One may have the best of intentions, but he or she may go about it the wrong way.Both produse the same outcome, but the wrong way will leave seeds of damage behind.We must not forget united we stand divided we fall.We should not persacute someone for there ations instead look at there intenions.People with the gift of discerment should alawys put there self in someone elses shoes ,and should never give in to anger.Because it hides gods grace and the purness of your own indivisalism.We all sin and should not isolate are bothers.Yet imbrace are bothers letting them know we want the same outcome aswell for gods work to be accoplished.We should meet on the same playing field as a team.We must serve the lord as mighty fearless worries and in doing so we face many challenges.Instead of being so quick to judge one lets look at what there trying to obtain in gods will.Then we will start to collect the vast vareity of gifts that god has to offer in everybody.Gods gifts should be used with the greatest passions and love from the deepest parts of are harts to help us ,gods people.I appreciate your commit James.Its good to point these things out. I pray that one day we all settle our differenses and form one church under god and come together as one the way god intended it to be. I’d really like to hear what you have to say about my comment I can be reached at bonicle.wright054@gmail.com
January 4th, 2010 at 8:23 am
Discernment is a gift that should be used with great caution, wisdom and grace. Often from my experience, the Holy Spirit will patiently exhort me to share privately in peace. However, I have found that when the Holy Spirit decides gently persuading me to share has not produced, will mightly quicken my spirit with very high hearts beats, sweating, internal uneasy nervousness and jittrers of sorts. It is liken onto a shy new born again Christian who has not made a verbal public statement in church declaring Christ Jesus as Lord and Savior and asking for water baptism. Often the Holy Spirit will mightly prod and nudge a person foward over time until you pop up like a cork in water. What a kindly, beautiful peace that comes with that decison! -Ron
January 16th, 2010 at 4:38 am
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